Sairam:

I'm doing good. And as it's a collective endeavor, both Innominds and Zudy offer the exciting methodologies that a low code platform can offer for rapid application development to our customers and that is what our partnership signifies. Today, I'm going to have you talk about some of your insights and experiences in the market before that for my audience and all of us here, let me set some context.

Gartner forecasts, the worldwide low-code development technologies market to grow 23% in 2021. And the entire L-cap segment is projected to expand from $4.4 billion to $14.38 billion. Yes, you heard it right between 2020 to 2025 with a CAGR of 4%. And, it's projected to be $7.1 billion by 2025, 72% of new applications developed by enterprises will use low-code and no-low-code technologies up from less than 25% in 2020.

So, Gartner's VP Research & Advisory, Jason Wang tells that low-code development is like Lego, but if citizen developers or pro developers leave some blocks lying around, we need to step them inadvertently. Low-code lets you build your bricks if needed. No-code insists they have enough bricks to build them small enough that you can assemble a custom part. Finally, we were of low-code, no-code vendors that sell a solution, thinking a Harry Potter Lego set and telling that you can build anything. So that the sort of landscape that we are living in and as the democratization kicks in the key trend, that's driving low code adoption on an average 41% of employees in an organization. According to Gartner, half of all the low-code clients will come from business buyers that are outside its organization by 2025. Hence low-code platforms empower diverse fusion teams to deliver innovation. Let's now jump into talk and know more from Martyn and what he is witnessing in the low-code space.

Martyn, do you agree with this sort of context that I just tried to put forward? What's your opinion before we get deeper into the show today?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah, absolutely! We're seeing it with our company's recent growth in the types of applications that our clients are implementing. I think it's worth sharing too that the low-code no-code market has been something that has developed over the last couple of decades. It had different names before, primarily what I've been focusing on in our Zudy team has been focusing on is low code application development for the enterprise. And as we see more and more enterprises adopting these platforms for all types of use cases, we're noticing that they're starting to adopt multiple platforms to solve a variety of business needs across the organizations and they're enabling teams and they're treating it. I think it's similar to, cloud infrastructure strategy before the ERP strategy. A lot of the enterprises that we're working with are starting to build these strategies around the implementation of low-code no-code within their organizations. So, it surprises me that Gartner is revealing those stats. Like we're certainly seeing it and feeling it with our growth rate.

Sairam:

And today's topic is all about disruptive low-code platform solutions and how they can accelerate digital transformation. I'm so thrilled to be doing this with you. So, I mean, I know that you drive a whole lot of innovation at Zudy, so is low-code application development suitable for every business problem? What's your opinion, Martyn?

Martyn Mason:

I think the short answer to that today is no and it might not be surprising, but the reason is that there are still ways to evaluate a business problem from a variety of angles and say - yes, we have a new capability in our team, low-code is one of them. But I think what we're seeing from our customers and enterprises is that they're getting challenged with the number of available low-code no-code platforms that are out there. And it helps to understand if the definition of a low-code platform is reversed no-code. So, the way I think about low-code is its platforms are designed for teams that have professional development or experience. And they're looking to enable their teams to be faster, more responsive to business needs.

So, the low-code platforms naturally tailor their development environments to work with someone of some type of technical background and it might be influenced based on a certain coding technology or maybe a type of use case. And, and there's a set of great platforms that address that, those types of teams. On the no-code side, you've got platforms that are developed by someone with zero technical background. These are people that are usually within the business developing departmental-level applications or team-based applications. Also, there's some bridge back to the IT organization, but they're able to develop solutions and on their own, with a little technical background. So, when it comes to your question like is every business problem suitable for low-code or no-code? I think the answer today is no, but in the future, I do think it's a viable way to start a business and scale a business.

A lot of the low-code platforms will orchestrate other technologies. So, they might connect to your email system or how you interface with the text messaging, or how you produce some types of reports. So those platforms are doing well as being, sort of the centralized solution across several business problems. I would advise any CIO, that's looking at low-code to solve a particular problem, need to understand the use case right. Is there something out there that addresses the needs of that system or end-users and then also examines your development teams? Like, do you have the capability in-house to address that use cases, or is that something that is better served with your, business users taking on?

Sairam:

Great! With the future of no-code, what do you see? I mean, what will be those drastic changes that we can see two years down the line?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah! From a technical point of view, I certainly see, many of the low-code no-code solutions are focused on integrating newer technologies like AI or ML. To ensure that they can connect to some of the new systems that are coming out. So, think of systems like snowflakes. Data source integration ability to weave a new technology as they come to light. I think from a strategy point of view, enterprises are going to start developing an internal strategy of which platforms that they adopt, and when does it make sense to use low-code no-code in-house versus working with another team. So, the strategy side is something that we're starting to gain traction over the last few months, but typically an enterprise is new to evaluating these technologies.

So, they're working on the right questions to ask or what use cases are suitable. Sometimes those use cases are great for low code, otherwise, they're more suitable for other products.

Honestly, I think we're going to see a developing strategy within the enterprise. And then also think we're going to see the emergence of a new type of developer to bring this into an agile sense. Low code kind of combines the business analyst and the developer together because you have this efficiency in the development cycles, and it’s moving developer closer to the business and creating that level of efficiency where the people that are taking the requirements of the same person that's building those requirements. So that developer profile is starting to emerge. And I think it's a better profile for the overall delivery of applications.

Sairam:

Awesome! What do you mean by the new code, new type of developer emerging? We see the same things at Innominds. How do we evaluate low-code platforms from a business perspective? Even, Innominds is a digital product engineering service company when we go to our customers we have this conversation to help them choose the right low-code platform. But, hearing about that from the practitioner of the craft that you are, I think will be very insightful for the audience. Can you throw some light?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah. So, there are two sides to it. So, one is the use case side and I'll give some examples at the moment. Then there's also the development team at that enterprise or at that company and with their special kind of gravitates towards.

In terms of use cases, Gartner has its categories, but we tend to think about use cases in the terms of workflows of dashboards and the analytics of composite solutions. Those are more of the technical use cases. That's how the business would understand them as well. Then you also need to consider other categories like security. How secure does the system need to be? or How do you authenticate? or How you access core systems of record?

The other part of it is scalability. You wouldn't want a citizen developer building a solution that is going to have thousands of concurrent users on it and requires 99.5% uptime. So, you must consider the number of potential concurrent end-users, the scalability, the infrastructure implications because you want to avoid a situation where the citizen developer will build an application. Then it gets popular, it gets high usage, and then they need to hand that over to IT, who doesn't know enough about that solution. So, there are several categories. I'd say it's combined with those specific types: think forms, think dashboard analytics, composites, the mission-critical nature of the system, the security of the system is also very important. I also see some of our enterprise clients building multi-tenant concept applications, where many of their customers are signing in and they need to ensure that data itself is being controlled correctly. That's a skill and kind of quality assurance that needs to happen with every implementation.

Sairam:

Yeah, I agree! Moving on, what are the challenges that we see for enterprise applications that are particularly, developed by using low-code and no-code platforms.

Martyn Mason:

Yeah. I think it comes down to the beginning part when they're picking a platform. I have worked with a few enterprises where they will categorize a few low-code, no-code solutions and say, our strategy is going to be picking two or three. This type of platform is going to be used for these types of use cases and this one's going to be used for that now. So, It’s the challenge that they are going to have is developing that strategy and making it clear to the business in IT organizations that when you have use cases that meet these criteria this is a good use-case for low code and if they have multiple platforms, which ones it would be so there needs to be clear because I do see there are these cases where a solution might've been a better fit.

Let us say the Power Apps, for example, would make more sense. This is because of some integration over there, or some skill set that citizen developer has, or like I mentioned, that customer client portal, which is better suited for a project-based approach. The other piece of it is also developing, so once you have your platforms identified, established, and you have process created. It is also creating a center of excellence. I see some challenges there today because not every developer is used to sort of the traditional way. They are still learning the capabilities of low code, no code, and what those are. So, creating that centralized team and building that out got a handful of people, maybe a hundred personnel that are developing applications. That is one way to get the ROI out of the low-code platforms needed to be established. Creating that centralized team is a combination of business people, and the low-code no-code developers are going to be a trend. We will see more of it, right now, it is a challenge, but I do see that it is being addressed over time.

Sairam:

Got it! So, we are constantly hearing that we will get locked into this low-code platform. It is a common question that gets asked. What do you have to comment on this from a vendor lock-in standpoint? What is your view?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah, I think with any platform, there is always some lock-in. This is because there is going to be some level of investment that is made in learning things like how that platform operates, whether it is through creating applications or how it integrates the systems. There are essentially two categories of these platforms that are out there. They are the low-code no-code platforms that generate a set of code that you can reuse and re-install somewhere. And there are code generators that allow you to take that code and modify it. Then there are the platforms that generate essentially code on the fly for the end-user. You cannot even modify those platforms. So, there is going to be even with the ones that generate code, once you modify that code, then it becomes very difficult to maintain. It's going to be overwritten or it is written in such a way that it is machine automated. There is a probability that it is not meeting the coding standards of your coding team. While you can edit it and use it still, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can modify that code and start redeploying it and making changes.

So, we at Zudy, offer what we call a runtime approach, so you do need Vinyl to run Vinyl applications. But we can also give you the option to run the application as it is, which means you don't modify or add any functionality. You can fix bugs. But to develop new applications, you would require a license of Vinyl, which is one thought process amongst the vendors, and the other one is to generate code and give the teams the option to modify it.

Sairam:

Understood. What has been the relationship with Innominds? Why did you choose to partner and work within Innominds? What is your experience so far?

Martyn Mason:

It's been a great experience. I think we recognize the value, and you are helping us expand our message to the market. Which senses that we're doing right now identifying and helping your customers or prospects map to potentially our solution and say, this sounds like your problem, and it is suitable for low-code no-code that you should speak to Zudy. So, we appreciate that partnership and that visibility within your network.

On the side of how we're supporting Innominds, we've had numerous people taking our training class to learn the product, and a lot of that is around methodology and approach. So, we expand our offering beyond just the products, the best practices, and methodologies around a low-code no-code platform, a lot of that's applicable across the market. And we've started to help you guys evaluate internal use cases. So, I know that we're looking at a few in-house possibilities of starting an internal use case building by supporting your team and perhaps taking another more external-facing use case to your clients once we get that win under our belt.

Sairam:

Thank you for that. Just on that note, for the sake of the audience. What we do at Innominds, we are a Silicon Valley, headquartered digital product engineering services organization. We have built hundreds of products, co-created them for some of the largest and the most advanced independent software vendors the world over.

With 20 years of corporate experience, in developing products across technologies today, we are at the forefront of software, product innovation, and engineering. We also realize the fact that the entire model of software development is getting scrutinized by the advent of technology disruption through low-code platforms. In that parlance we were searching for a complementary technology platform provider who has innovation at the center of the BME, the agility to bring disruption to the market, and make sure cross-platform business applications for enterprises and ISVs can be dealt with and built faster. We figured out that Zudy offers that Vinyl platforms and the relationship has been complimentary, and it's exciting for us to go to the market. So, thank you, Martyn, for that note as well.

Now let's move on. Would you talk about maybe three case studies or a couple of them where Zudy has accelerated the software development to low-code technology in different verticals?

Martyn Mason:

Yes. And I think for our audience, this is where you will see the power of low-code no-code, especially in the areas where our platform enables our platform Vinyl. I love to share it because it is a public-facing application. It is something that potentially some of your audience might not be aware that they are using. So our platform facilitates the ranking and scoring of all the marathons in the world. So as of earlier this year, if you were to run a marathon over a certain age group, you would be eligible for this portal, and also, you get ranked in your demographic and in your country, worldwide. The runners’ portals are designed to incentivize runners to achieve what they call a six-star marathon journey. The way Vinyl fits into that picture is that we are aggregating in running some algorithms against all the data, collected from the various events and even smaller events.

Some of the lesser well-known events, and then running those calculations, matching it to the runner, right? There is some de-duping and aggregation that happens. The runner can claim those results through the Vinyl end-user portal. Vinyl application is doing the backend kind of calculation, but also it is an end-user application. So, you can imagine thousands of runners logging in claiming results on some of them are signing up. So, the signup process is also highly secure, and that is done through a Vinyl application. Then they can view their results and view their rankings. They have a nice mobile-rich application as well as a desktop application. So, lots of capabilities that we had to hit one other powerful point that we designed in the platform initially, and this is something that, I would imagine all the low code vendors need is this ability to share data upstream.

So, all the data that we collect, all the algorithms that we run, all the events that get managed, and Vinyl are then accessible via arrest API to put live on their website. So, if you were to go to the website and look at your rankings the data in those rankings is being sourced from the Vinyl systems.

Sairam:

Hmm. That's pretty interesting!

Martyn Mason:

Yep. So that's the one you said three, right? So, I'll touch on a couple more that we are working on, and this is public knowledge. So, we are working with the department of defense. I won't go into a lot of detail on the agency, but the application they had built entirely by them is an instructor matching tool. So, they offer courses that teach very depth or experience around a particular subject. In this case, the military and the aircraft take these courses and match them to ideal instructors based on their availability and several other parameters.

This agency had an existing system. It was the third time they wanted to implement this solution, and they liked the Vinyl platform because of its capability to be tailored and customized to their needs because they have unique requirements. And just the ease of use in terms of working with the development team. So, they could not outsource any of this work. It was being done within that team there. And they would reach out to us via email or perhaps a zoom call and get support that way, but they had to develop most of this capability in-house.

Sairam:

Got it. That's pretty interesting, did you say the department of defense?

Martyn Mason:

Yes. In the US. I think that use case has been a bridge to other agencies and other areas. Because they recognize that low-code no-code, in general, is great for their teams because of the security that is required. Most of the applications must be built by the in-house team. And we are noticing a lot of patterns are done in an Excel or Microsoft access. They are trying to move those platforms into something more centralized, but also scalable.

The other favorite use case that I've implemented a few times. This is the retail use case, and this is the ability for a retailer to create what they call a client-telling solution. So, it is the ability for an associate or any sales rep to look up a consumer and see a purchasing history or get a 360-degree view of that consumer. They can also see their preferred products, last transactions, any notes, and preferences.

It is commonly a challenge across retailers because the data from all those systems come from several data sources. So, bringing those systems together in real-time is a great use case for Vinyl in this approach. Also, being able to integrate an AI technology, they can pass transactional information and say, based on this product history, what are some recommended products either based on the image or based on the data that this consumer might be interested in? So, that's a great use case because of the multi-system nature of the retailers. As they always have different points of sales, CRMs, image systems. So, bringing that all together was one challenge that we solved.

Sairam:

It indeed is. Thank you very much. Those three use cases, I must say have been very close to being as pragmatic as they were. I'm sure every software development organization would relate to them considering some of those problems that we intend to solve in the traditional model how you accelerated using low code. That's good. So, what is one thing that you are seeing in the no-code development that particularly excites you? It could be technology or, it could be business, I will ask you this thing.

Martyn Mason:

Yeah. I am excited about it. We've seen several startup customers come to us, adopt our platform, build an application, and either get funding or get customers, in a record time, especially for a startup. I bring this up because a lot of startups are not just consumer startups. It's either someone that had a great idea or a very niche idea. That's more B2B use case, and that maybe they tried to build it on their own or bring on a development team. Many of those leaders, those they're visionaries prior, probably at their previous company are building these end-to-end solutions, enable to take their idea, make it come to life, and make it real. We're seeing kind of this in an investor mindset be open and encouraging to startups who adopt low-code or no-code to build their first cut application.

And these are real applications they're using to solve the problem they set out to do and then add additional functionality as it gets feedback from their customers or their investors. So, we're seeing it within our client base. We had one client get a multi-million-dollar round of funding from investors. She would've never dreamed of that happening without a low-code product. And she had evaluated other approaches before. I think we're going to start seeing this trend of startups adopting various levels of low-code and no-code to be successful. I think that's one exciting thing. It's just allowing an innovator to bring their idea to life and putting that power in their hands. I think it's just exciting to see how that plays out.

Sairam:

Awesome. I think what you touch is a very interesting thing. Like something like an NVP acceleration for a startup, right? And, then that will help them faster go, show it the market choice for customers. I get that. That is very interesting. Let's get a little technical now. What could be the challenges behind creating web apps and mobile apps using the low-code no-code approach? And are there any specific ways that you would advocate and how Zudy approach that?

Martyn Mason:

So, two parts with this question come to mind. One is the perception, or in a challenge with some platforms where you're going to hit a wall when it comes to a requirement. Maybe you have a customer that requires you to integrate to DocuSign, and you need to put their logo, a custom logo on the DocuSign document. It is not a common requirement, but that requirement might be the break, the mandatory, right? It must be addressed. There's a perception, and sometimes rightfully so with developers, there's going to be a limitation. I know within platforms that are out there, I think Zudy does this well if you enable the ability to extend the platform out in a controlled manner. So, you allow developers to incorporate their level of JavaScript or C#, or maybe it's a store procedure in a database.

So, all the low-code platforms need to be open to extending multiple technologies into the platform because they're going to run into this final one to two percent of requirements that need to be addressed. At Zudy, we felt while most of what you develop in the platform is the point and click, drag and drop. We did not want development teams to hit a wall. So, we've been very open to extensibility, and we've enabled that. So, I think other platforms are having that challenge in the often we'll have to incorporate almost too much code to solve it. I think this is something that if you're a development team evaluating a product, you're going to want to see the ability to incorporate CSS, JavaScript, and technologies that you're more familiar with.

On the web and mobile part, I want to touch on that there are two ways to approach web and mobile development. So, when you first start off developing an application, many platforms will ask you, is this a web app or a mobile application? You almost must decide to say I'm going web app, or I'm going mobile-only. It is a challenge, because a lot of times, an enterprise doesn't know. What they don't know is this going to be most of a mobile application, or is it going to have some requirements that need to be on a desktop? So, forcing a development team to declare that early is a challenge.

The way we solve as Zudy is that you don't need to make that decision until the end. We can keep you essentially start you off as a web application as you get close in and if you're ready to go into production, you can take what you've built and develop offline or store and forward applications or native applications with the platform and have that be available as a pure native device, or it runs nicely on a phone or a tablet, and the desktop. To me putting that decision at the end makes more sense, because then at that point, the business has a better idea of how the application is going to be used. You don't have to get testing as they go, as they refine requirements. We deal with that strategy by some technical capability we've created to take a web application and move it to a hundred percent offline.

Sairam:

Got it! Quite interesting. Most importantly, low-code no-code comprises sharp development life cycles. How do you ensure the quality of the applications? Can you talk about that?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah. I'll touch on a related challenge that I'm observing. That when you have a low-code and no-code platforms, the common evaluation of code is not there. Because there's not much code to evaluate so we're doing this now. So, vendors need to be able to put something in the platform that highlights the violation of a best practice or this, how you've constructed this query, or this user experience is going to lead to potential quality issues. So, that should be addressed in the platforms, almost as you're developing them, or at least as you're testing them. So, quality assurance is something that, and rightfully so should be built into the platforms. And, then as far as how it stands today, the advantage of low-code no-code is that it does shorten the dev cycle, which opens more time towards testing.

I think we all know in a traditional development project or any type of IT project development is usually the longest pole in the tent. The thing that you start losing time to make go-live is testing and feedback and refinement.

So, at Zudy, we believe that it should not be the longest pole in the tent development, it should be one of the largest parts of your project, but as you're in your first third of the project development, you should be able to send something for testing, for refinement, and starting feedback hands-on feedback from users. I think low code, no code corrects the testing cycles that should be happening, which allows for better applications, once they get closer to watching.

Sairam:

Understood! As far as the Zudy platform is concerned, how customizable is it?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah, it's very customizable. Everything, that I tend to guide our customers is that if you can mock it up on Figma, so Figma has a lot of liberty. You'll probably get between, 80 to 90% there in our platform and Vinyl. So customizable typically means the aesthetics, the UI, the branding, the look, and the feel. So, we give a lot of control of that. If you can declare in CSS, you can create what we call a theme and Vinyl and apply that theme at all levels of the application. That's just a reusable set of CSS. Then customization could also happen on the logic side as well as the integration side. And that that's even more so in our platform and other platforms for that matter, being able to integrate for, to several systems and create logic that meets the requirements is there as well. But we offer a high level of customization that's quite straightforward to use within the UI, especially.

Sairam:

Yeah. There are two parts to that. We partnered with a company to help us with this as well. You always need to identify, and we try to do this upfront as a business value metric. So that could come in the form of something simple. Let's say, the number of customers onboarded, or it could be a revenue targeted, or it could be something to do with a headcount, or it could be a volume of orders processed, or maybe a step in a workflow approval. So there has to be something understandable at the executive level to say, what is my ROI on this application or suite of applications. Once you have established then you need some sort of secondary or supporting metrics that are tied to the application itself.

This could be how many times users are accessing or utilizing the application. How many times they are on a particular page? How many times did they hit the approval button? How many workflows were executed in the app? These are transactions that are hundred percent associated with the application itself. The vendors can add some dashboard or insights into these metrics. They should be able to give you the usage analytics on an application by page, how long a user was on a particular screen? or how many times a particular event was executed? You then need to tie that business ROI metric back to the application metrics. Say the reason why you've onboarded 200 more customers this year is because of the activity that we're seeing in your CRM that works well with your order management system. While I think the technical part of doing the annul, the analysis against the applications is easier to establish the ROI metric with the business upfront is more of a challenge. That is more of a business question versus a technical question. Sometimes the question is not asked, which is what we encourage our customers is identify that business value metric. And then once you do make sure you're able to measure it in the application.

Sairam:

Understood, while we are coming towards the end of the show, it's a couple of things that I wanted to seek your views on this. How well a low-code platform works with an organization's cloud strategy? And, in general, how secure, and scalable are our low-code platforms?

Martyn Mason:

Yeah. I strongly believe that a low-code no-code platform facilitates the movement to a cloud infrastructure strategy. So many of the offerings that are out there you'll notice have multiple options for deployment. So, they might start with a private cloud strategy or a SAS solution or platform as a service, or they would offer an on-premises solution or a hybrid. One way to get into the cloud, if you're starting your journey, you could select one of your applications and say, this portal that we're building on a low code and no-code system is to be hosted on the cloud. The vendors should give you the option to select "which cloud option do you like?". In that particular system, you could build potential integrations to other sources, whether they're on-premises or external sources.

I think it's a great way to take your first use case, establish that this is going to be hosted on the cloud. It's going to be able to potentially connect to systems that you might need to support the use case. Then naturally, you have your first step into an overall cloud strategy where I see this sometimes not working is when you have a platform that does not allow for that. Maybe for whatever reason, they don't offer a private cloud solution, or everything has to be within their tenant or within their SAS solution, which that's a consideration. So, if you're trying to move to the cloud, one of your criteria for evaluation evaluating the platform should be, where can you host that platform? What are the options? Then on the security front, which is another metric.

So insecurity is complicated. There are multiple levels. So, Vinyl, we knew that not to work for the enterprise. I mean, I mentioned that the department of defense that we had to address all levels very well. We had to address how you authenticate into an application. Do you support single sign-on? Are you able to control applications and pages that are being viewed by the user in an easy to manage way? Are you able to integrate with an existing HR management system, something like success factors or Workday in-use data from those systems to determine what they can do and what they can see downstream, and then you potentially have identity management? Just because you sign in as one user, how you access, let's say SAP or Salesforce, it could be a different user ID. So how do you carry over identity to other systems that might be used in the low code solution?

Martyn Mason:

So then, we can get into infrastructure encryption at rest encryption in transit, all that has to be addressed. We've ensured that the full stack of security at Vinyl is something that could be controlled by the IT organizations. They have options in terms of the levels of deployment level of control that they need. I think other platforms are in different areas of that process, but security-wise, we feel that we're strong in that category.

Sairam:

Terrific! It has been insightful, all those insights and revelations that you've made from what you have been seeing. I would like to summarize the benefits of low-code development platforms that we are seeing, which will resonate with the Forrester research. They say that one faster delivery, low-code development platforms are emerging as a key strategy to accelerate application delivery, to support digital transformation, and with the potential to make software development, as much as 10 times faster than traditional methods says John Ryner from Forrester. The research also says that 70% of its leaders found that low-code platforms are more affordable compared to traditional development platforms and 80% cited that ability to meet the requirements within budget. Last but not the least, and most important that 90% of IT leaders find that the flexible design of low-code platforms helps to improve customer experience compared to traditional development platforms.

So, as we look at all these benefits, and as we look at those experiences of a platform like Zudy that Martyn elucidated, and the technical insights, as well as the business use cases and as a digital-next services providers, Innominds, we see that enterprises, as well as software product companies who are in a great rush to develop applications, which are first-time ready and bring it to market, are moving more and more towards an option of value-driven low-code platforms. I think that's going to stay. As a software product engineering, digital innovation company, we believe that this is a strong option for all of us to consider.

That brings me to the end of today's podcast, edition five, at Innominds we will continue to bring rich insights as we've always been doing. I wanted to tank Martyn once again, and of course, Zudy for bringing this alive as well as sharing extremely important insights as they see it day in and day out. Together, we promise our customers a stronger market offering that can offer a strategic, low-code and rapid application development offering that can have a significant advantage.

This is Sairam Vedam, the Global Chief Marketing Officer at Innominds, signing off. Thank you, Martyn, once again. Thank you for being with me today.

Martyn Mason:

Thank you Sairam, it’s been a pleasure.

Sairam:

Thank you very much.